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The New Vietnam

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Ted Neward's observation that ORM is the Vietnam of our industry floored me.
 
I wonder where Kerry and Bush stand on the issue.
Posted Oct 04 2004, 03:33 PM by don-box

Comments

Sean Chase wrote RE: The New Vietnam
on 10-04-2004 11:07 AM
Bush will invade it, Kerry will vote both for it and against it, Clinton will grope it, and Al Gore will claim he invented it. :-)

In all seriousness, I hope this topic gets a lot of attention!

*sits back with a bowl of popcorn waiting for the train wreck *
Plub Afaik wrote re: The New Vietnam
on 10-04-2004 11:42 AM
And Cheney will rename 'ORM' to 'ARM'...
TheChaseMan's Frenetic SoapBox wrote O/R Mappers - Take 2
on 10-04-2004 2:15 PM
Chris Garty wrote re: The New Vietnam
on 10-04-2004 7:07 PM
You'd have to agree with him though...

Vietnam's defining characteristics were that it took much longer than was expected and left no clear winner.

The ORM war has already gone on longer than most people expected. ObjectSpaces debuted as early as 2002, was given to developers at PDC 2003 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnadonet/html/objectspaces.asp), was merged with WinFS lately (http://objectsharp.com/Blogs/barry/archive/2004/05/22/491.aspx), and now WinFS has been delayed till 2007 (http://weblogs.asp.net/chrisgarty/archive/2004/08/30/222521.aspx).
And while there is no clear winner yet, I think everyone in the .Net community is hoping that after all the effort that has gone into it, WinFS can emerge as a clear winner in this new Vietnam.
Don Box wrote re: The New Vietnam
on 10-04-2004 7:10 PM
Even if WinFS shipped tomorrow, it offers no help to developers who need to access data in an existing RDBMS.

DB
Kevin Daly wrote re: The New Vietnam
on 10-04-2004 10:19 PM
ObjectSpaces *did* however offer that help (at least to SQL Server developers) - so tying ObjectSpaces to WinFS cruelly snatched the candy from our innocent childlike hands...
I feel a sulk coming on.
Christophe Pichaud wrote re: The New Vietnam
on 10-04-2004 10:45 PM
The new vietnam is not ORM anymore...
ORM is done for poorly designed architecture or just small ones.
I'm sorry Don.

In the biggest banks (European ones, sorry) Java is a massive shift and ORM were part of the jobs. Most of them have left it on the road whil continued to code like legacy applications (using stored procedures and transactions like previous CICS environement).
ORM is a dream for most of newbbies but in the real world (bank have tables with Giga of data, not 3 rows !!!), it's not working.
There are products like SQL Server with great features inside, and you put it down with small "dynamic sql query builder" programs.... oh no !!!
Chris Garty wrote re: The New Vietnam
on 10-05-2004 7:18 AM
Hi Don,

Can you drill down a little on your comment?Are refering to the fact that WinFS will only provide ORM capabilities on a future version of MS SQL Server?

Thanks!
ricky datta wrote re: The New Vietnam
on 10-05-2004 3:06 PM
Your comment fonts are too small.
Sean's Blog wrote ORM is Hell.
on 10-05-2004 7:04 PM
Sean's Blog wrote ORM is Hell.
on 10-05-2004 7:08 PM
Erik Johnson wrote re: The New Vietnam
on 10-06-2004 12:37 PM
Solving the OO/RDBMS "impedence mismatch" doesn't really help in a lot of cases. Business information, for example, often suffers an impedence problem with both RDBMS and OO technologies (and maybe computer science altogether). I'd like to see fresh ideas for end-to-end representation of information. Oh, and make sure it scales!
TheChaseMan's Frenetic SoapBox wrote My $02 - Fowler's
on 10-12-2004 3:21 PM
TheChaseMan's Frenetic SoapBox wrote My $02 - Fowler's
on 10-12-2004 3:22 PM
Sean McBreen's WebLog wrote Object Relational Mapping Tools for .NET
on 02-23-2005 12:55 PM
Sean McBreen's WebLog wrote Object Relational Mapping Tools for .NET
on 12-04-2006 12:03 PM
With ObjectSpaces being delayed I still get many customers asking about where to get ORM tools for .NET.

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